Whats up with keno?

I have played keno so much its not funny. Im curious to know if anyone has gotten 8,9 or 10 numbers? What do i need to do i play my same lucky numbers all the time. N i have only ever gotten 250k once by getting 8 number on 1000k bet. I never lose hope tho. I swear i have spent millions on keno n i get nothin back. I just have the worst luck ever.

Smokescreen_5

Member

I've only gotten 8 numbers once as well


RIKER

Member

Its called programming not bad luck, they dont want you to win cause then you wouldnt buy chip packs so its programmed to never give out the big wins. My gf got a  million once and she spent millions of chips on keno. Wise up the gam is a scam, sure its fun but dont for one second think your going to get ahead by continuuing to play lol


I'm #1

Lmao i think there might be some truth to what you have said. I have brought stuff on the game n i have not won anything huge. I swear ur right..

DL_Paul

Administrator

1) There is ZERO truth to what he said. There would be zero point to not simply have the odds play out. We know this is always the "Go to" response for any loss. It's strange how no one ever comes to the forum with "Wow -- I just got a 8 catch in Keno and won 250,000 chips!" But it happens...there are even videos posted online of people getting a 9 catch.

2) The probability of getting a 8, 9 or 10 catch are EXTREMELY small. Just look at the last time you won the lottery for example of this.

3) The exact probability of getting the top prize on a 1000 bet on a 10 Catch is: 0.0000112211895134156%. OR so close to zero that it is almost impossible. Further in to the calculation for Keno -- Probability can be defined as the number of positive possibilities (the nominator) divided the total number of possibilities (the denominator). The probability rapidly increases for a 4-7 hit.

There are a bunch of great sites online that cover the payouts and odds of all the casino games we have in Four Kings.

So to your original question -- There is nothing "up with Keno"....it's functioning exactly as expected it should. You'll likely have a 4-6 catch happen pretty frequently...but anything above that is very rare, but not unheard of.

ReccaWolf

Member

I've only gotten 9 numbers and that was like nearly 2 years ago, and I have recorded that video on my YouTube channel. I'm still trying for 10 numbers so I can make that into a video too. But like DL_Paul said, it's very rare, so it's very difficult to catch 10 numbers for 5 million on a 1000 max bet.

Last edited by ReccaWolf (7 Mar 2017 22:27)

Smokescreen_5

Member

So the chance of getting 5,000,000 chips is 1/100,000 of a chance?  That feels about the same as getting the We Three Kings Trophy.  That trophy is so ridiculous in itself.  I've spun the wheel at least 400 times now and nothing.  When I did get 3 kings, I was told I never got it.  I know I've never gotten 10 numbers in keno but the odds should be a little bit better than 1/100,000 unless the game is rigged.  After all, you get to pick 10 numbers out of 80.  Lets break that down.  10/80 = 1/8.  Not 1/100,000  Which means we should have a 12.5% chance of getting the to prize.  Unless of course you don't know how to do math that is. 10 numbers out of 80.  20 numbers drop each time.  10/80 = 1/8  1 divided by 8 is 0.125 or 12.5%  And yet since 20 numbers drop it is actually 20/80 which is 1/4 or 25% chance.  This is basic math.  The numbers that drop have already been decided as soon as you push the button to spin.  The chances don't change as more and more balls go down.  It's the same with playing Blackjack or War.  You see the card you're going to be dealt before its even dealt to you.  This is especially noticed when you have 5 people at your table.  As soon as you push that button, the game has already decided if you will win or lose.  And if DL made the chances 1/100,000 of a possibility of winning all 10 numbers then they have rigged the odds of a game where you should have a 25% chance It's actually figured out like this though, 10/80 + 9/79 + 8/78 + 7/77 + 6/76 + 5/75 + 4/74 + 3/73 + 2/72 + 1/71 of a chance Which is actually a 71.5% chance of winning all numbers.  This is if all 10 numbers drop 1 after another.  Otherwise the more balls drop that aren't your number, the percent chance changes.  so it could be 10/80 + 10/79 + 9/78 + 9/77 + 9/76 etc etc for 20 numbers and it might be that you have a chance of getting 4/60 by the time all numbers are called.  So what tare those chances?  About the same as the 71% chance amount of getting the numbers.  Its' all math, and if you know how to calculate, you know that the chances of winning all 10 numbers is a lot more than 1/100,000.  But since the game is rigged, to those chances, then you'll rarely ever see all 10 numbers called.


RIKER

Member

Smokescreen_5 wrote

So the chance of getting 5,000,000 chips is 1/100,000 of a chance?  That feels about the same as getting the We Three Kings Trophy.  That trophy is so ridiculous in itself.  I've spun the wheel at least 400 times now and nothing.  When I did get 3 kings, I was told I never got it.  I know I've never gotten 10 numbers in keno but the odds should be a little bit better than 1/100,000 unless the game is rigged.  After all, you get to pick 10 numbers out of 80.  Lets break that down.  10/80 = 1/8.  Not 1/100,000  Which means we should have a 12.5% chance of getting the to prize.  Unless of course you don't know how to do math that is. 10 numbers out of 80.  20 numbers drop each time.  10/80 = 1/8  1 divided by 8 is 0.125 or 12.5%  And yet since 20 numbers drop it is actually 20/80 which is 1/4 or 25% chance.  This is basic math.  The numbers that drop have already been decided as soon as you push the button to spin.  The chances don't change as more and more balls go down.  It's the same with playing Blackjack or War.  You see the card you're going to be dealt before its even dealt to you.  This is especially noticed when you have 5 people at your table.  As soon as you push that button, the game has already decided if you will win or lose.  And if DL made the chances 1/100,000 of a possibility of winning all 10 numbers then they have rigged the odds of a game where you should have a 25% chance It's actually figured out like this though, 10/80 + 9/79 + 8/78 + 7/77 + 6/76 + 5/75 + 4/74 + 3/73 + 2/72 + 1/71 of a chance Which is actually a 71.5% chance of winning all numbers.  This is if all 10 numbers drop 1 after another.  Otherwise the more balls drop that aren't your number, the percent chance changes.  so it could be 10/80 + 10/79 + 9/78 + 9/77 + 9/76 etc etc for 20 numbers and it might be that you have a chance of getting 4/60 by the time all numbers are called.  So what tare those chances?  About the same as the 71% chance amount of getting the numbers.  Its' all math, and if you know how to calculate, you know that the chances of winning all 10 numbers is a lot more than 1/100,000.  But since the game is rigged, to those chances, then you'll rarely ever see all 10 numbers called.

exactly


I'm #1

DL_Courtney

Administrator

Smokescreen_5 wrote

I know I've never gotten 10 numbers in keno but the odds should be a little bit better than 1/100,000 unless the game is rigged.  After all, you get to pick 10 numbers out of 80.

The problem with your math here is you haven't accounted for the sheer amount of combinations of numbers that could be called, when for a 10-catch (or any catch) you are betting on a very specific set of numbers. There are 184,756 possible winning combinations for a 10-catch out of 1,646,490,000,000 possible combinations of numbers. That is 1/8,911,699.75, or 0.0000112211895134156%, as DL_Paul said. It's only slightly better than a 1 in 9 million chance of winning.

You can check the math here or here if you like. Both sites break down specifically how to calculate the odds for any bet in Keno.

As we keep saying, it makes no sense for us to "rig" the games. These are the natural odds used in the games in real life, so there's really no point in trying to fudge the numbers.

Smokescreen_5

Member

DL_Courtney wrote
Smokescreen_5 wrote

I know I've never gotten 10 numbers in keno but the odds should be a little bit better than 1/100,000 unless the game is rigged.  After all, you get to pick 10 numbers out of 80.

The problem with your math here is you haven't accounted for the sheer amount of combinations of numbers that could be called, when for a 10-catch (or any catch) you are betting on a very specific set of numbers. There are 184,756 possible winning combinations for a 10-catch out of 1,646,490,000,000 possible combinations of numbers. That is 1/8,911,699.75, or 0.0000112211895134156%, as DL_Paul said. It's only slightly better than a 1 in 9 million chance of winning.

You can check the math here or here if you like. Both sites break down specifically how to calculate the odds for any bet in Keno.

As we keep saying, it makes no sense for us to "rig" the games. These are the natural odds used in the games in real life, so there's really no point in trying to fudge the numbers.


Thanks for the link.  Saves me the trouble of looking them up myself.  As quoted from one of the websites you provided,

"Once you figure out the odds of actually winning keno and the payoffs the casino gives, you will realize that the house does not pay what the actual odds are. The math is always on the house's side. A lot of gamblers say to stay away from keno because of the high house advantage, which can be up to 20 percent. Here is an example: To catch one number, the real odds are 25 percent or 4 to 1. For the odds to be perfect, the house should pay $4 for every $1 bet. But in reality, the house pays $3 for $1 bet. That 25 percent difference is the "edge" the house possesses."

This means the game is set up so that the house, aka Digital Leisure will win more often than the player.

And as stated on another of the links,

"The $2 10-spot returns on average $1.4092. So the expected return is $1.4092/2 = 70.46%."

Which means I was correct in my math.  I know there are many many possibilities but to say your chances are 1/100,000 isn't true if its played correctly.  Since the game is already set up so that it will deal out what it wants as soon as you hit the spin button, we know that regardless of what we play, we know that since its a digital game, that it can be set up to announce a winner at a rate set up by the casino.  We know that the combination possibilities are set up so that there is actually a chance to win every once in a while, but if the house rigs the odds, then those chances are even more rare.


GamblingGirl

Member

I've played KENO a ton, I frequently win 50k or less, never anything higher. I expect this as I know the odds for winning a huge sum from KENO is rare.

I must say that I feel as if the games are not balanced enough or someone figured out how to get wins by manipulation of the system/data. There must be some factor allowing certain people to win. Like for an example, I play a lot of bingo, and certain people, constantly win. I'm not talking about one or two wins a day, I see the same people win up to 15 times in a day while others never win. Isn't it odd that most of the people in the top 10 in bingo are not from North America? When the same people from every season are putting up a 100k RP in a week in bingo, I think there is something strange going on. I don't know for sure but it made me hang up my auto dabber.

I won 4 royal flushes in video poker within 2 weeks, while some people have been on a year or more and never won. Not balanced?

Most of the time I notice I win a huge amount, within a few pulls of a lever if I just logged in.

I don't believe these games are 100% luck based.

I might not be a game developer but I am a smart cookie and it's hard to put one over on me when it comes to numbers and gambling.

Last edited by GamblingGirl (9 Mar 2017 09:09)

DL_Paul

Administrator

Smokescreen_5 --- Your math is not correct. The chances are not 1 in 100,000 for a 10 catch on 80 numbers. I'm sorry, but you are clearly not understanding how probability works for this game. As I originally stated, the house edge for Keno is very high compared to most other games. Just because a game COULD pay you a certain win doesn't mean IT EVER WILL. All of the mini-games designed within the main game were done with Vegas standards in mind. Like with any game in real life, if I take your 1,000 bet on something that I will pay you out 1,000,000 or 5,000,000 on --- I better know that the likelihood of it happening are slim.

Think of Keno like ANY lottery --- there is a reason why the Powerball goes up to half a billion dollars at some point. It's because no matter how many millions of people play, the numbers called never matched the played numbers for weeks! The same concept applies for Keno. It's a mini-lottery held between you and the casino.

GamblingGirl -- The games are completely balanced in that we have had millions of trials and the expected odds payout percentages have been paid out accordingly. The system doesn't care or look at what username is playing a game. It simply plays a random set of numbers/cards and pays out based on input from the player. There is no manipulation of data because there would be no point. We simply want to make the game more stable and have the best play experience for all users.

I have played the game for thousands of hours over the last years and have never had a Royal Flush appear. It is an extremely RARE hand to have. When we run statistical odds, we don't look at individual users, we simply look at number of plays and payouts of those plays. It would be flawed to say "Oh, that person just won that...so we'll give it to the next person" -- that's just not how things work.

The games are 100% luck based. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. You are also never guaranteed to win anything...just because a casino gives you the bet option, doesn't mean it's a "good" bet. Naturally, the higher the payout for the smaller the bet the less likely your outcome will be.

So, as we always say.....Good Luck and Have Fun!

RIKER

Member

its hard to have fun when you  never win lol


I'm #1

GamblingGirl

Member

RIKER wrote

its hard to have fun when you  never win lol

Agreed, but in the same token, it wont be much fun if you always win either since there is nothing to buy with RP lol

Seriously though, I do wish that everyone got a fair shake at a top ten spot, most people like myself work a FT job. How do you compete with people who don't have jobs and spend 24/7 on here? It's not a fair system for leaderboards. I'll never get top ten in anything and that's really disappointing.

Smokescreen_5

Member

DL_Paul wrote

Smokescreen_5 --- Your math is not correct. The chances are not 1 in 100,000 for a 10 catch on 80 numbers. I'm sorry, but you are clearly not understanding how probability works for this game.

DL_Courtney stated that you have a chance to win the 10 catch with the odds of 0.00001.  If you understand math, then you would know that those odds are 1/100,000.  So yes my math is correct unless you use some sort of jibberish calculator nobody else knows about.  And I know the difference between probability, and the house edge and the way that it can be altered by code for probability to be even more on the house side.  I understand all of it.  I also know about the gamblers fallacy.  But I also know the diffence between a gamblers fallacy and a house fallacy, which I understand that as well.


DL_Courtney

Administrator

Smokescreen_5 wrote

DL_Courtney stated that you have a chance to win the 10 catch with the odds of 0.00001.

This is why I always showed my work in math class - I think I've slipped a digit in converting the scientific notation. Luckily I make art, not math. wink It's correct up til the 1/8,911,699.75 which becomes 1.12212039×10-7 (scientific notation because the number is too small to show all the digits on the calculator). Written out, that's 0.0000001122120395134156%, not 0.0000112211895134156%, which makes way more sense with the original fraction. That's my fault - but the rest of the math is correct if you follow it through. On those websites I linked you can see how that's all calculated and follow the steps to do so yourself. The first site uses the odds and numbers from Luxor's keno game, and those are the same ones we use for ours. The line you quoted about the 70% return is not the odds of the game, that's how much money you are expected to win over time. That means that if you put in $2, over time you are expected to get only $1.40 back, and on average over time, you will lose 30% of the money you put in. That's why it's important to know when to call it a victory on a winning streak, and go play something else with a higher return for a bit.

So - we've shown you our work and that there is no need for us to change the odds of the game. We use standard odds on all of our games in the hopes of giving people a fun simulated casino gaming experience. If that's not for you, well... we do have bowling now, too. smile

Smokescreen_5

Member

Like I said, I know the odds.  Your original post is the same thing as saying you have the odds of getting the 10 catch in 1/100,000.  Now you are saying its more like 1/1,000,000  or one in a million.  Thanks for admitting to the slip up.  I understood it was saying your return is approximately 70% but while playing the game, I don't even get 70% back.  It's more like 15%.  Why do I say this?  Because of the 1,000's of spins I've made, on average only 1 of 10 spins is a winner.  Most of those are only the 4 catch in a 10 pick.  Every once in a while I'll get a 5 or 6 catch but even thats rare.  Like I said I've only gotten an 8 catch once.  Out of the amount of chips I've spent there, and if I added up all my earnings against how much I've spent, its still only about a 15% pull back.  I'd like to say I'd enjoy the experience, but I really don't as much. 

The new bowling alley, yes its something new, and yes it was exciting to hear about, but it doesn't pan out.   I can throw the ball down the lane the exact same way 10 times in a row and get 10 different outcomes.  The pins are too thin because there shouldn't be that much space in between them.  If you look at them head on the fat part of the lower pin should just barely covering up the gap between pins down the lane as indicated in the rules of pin racks I shared in the Bowling Update post.  As this is a totally different subject, I suggest you read the other thread for this as this thread is in regards to Keno.

Of course if I was following DL moderation leads, I'd turn around and say something like, "As this thread has gone off topic, this thread will now be closed", so lets keep it on topic there DL.

I've read the pages of how Keno works.  I've read the odds, I've read the fallacies.  And yet, just like any other casino, you decline to admit that programming of the machines can be changed to favor the host even more than normal.  Or rather that you say that Casino owners don't rig games which we all know they do.  It's kind of like saying, how police officers won't admit to having to fulfill a quota of writing up speeding tickets each month.  I've gotten a few to admit they have to, but the majority of officers will say its ridiculous and not true. Just as you guys are doing with the casino.

Last edited by Smokescreen_5 (14 Mar 2017 05:36)


GamblingGirl

Member

Smokescreen_5 wrote

Like I said, I know the odds.  Your original post is the same thing as saying you have the odds of getting the 10 catch in 1/100,000.  Now you are saying its more like 1/1,000,000  or one in a million.  Thanks for admitting to the slip up.  I understood it was saying your return is approximately 70% but while playing the game, I don't even get 70% back.  It's more like 15%.  Why do I say this?  Because of the 1,000's of spins I've made, on average only 2 of 10 spins is a winner.  Most of those are only the 4 catch in a 10 pick.  Every once in a while I'll get a 5 or 6 catch but even thats rare.  Like I said I've only gotten an 8 catch once.  Out of the amount of chips I've spent there, and if I added up all my earnings against how much I've spent, its still only about a 15% pull back.  I'd like to say I'd enjoy the experience, but I really don't as much. 

The new bowling alley, yes its something new, and yes it was exciting to hear about, but it doesn't pan out.   I can throw the ball down the lane the exact same way 10 times in a row and get 10 different outcomes.  The pins are too thin because there shouldn't be that much space in between them.  If you look at them head on the fat part of the lower pin should just barely covering up the gap between pins down the lane as indicated in the rules of pin racks I shared in the Bowling Update post.  As this is a totally different subject, I suggest you read the other thread for this as this thread is in regards to Keno.

Of course if I was following DL moderation leads, I'd turn around and say something like, "As this thread has gone off topic, this thread will now be closed", so lets keep it on topic there DL.

I've read the pages of how Keno works.  I've read the odds, I've read the fallacies.  And yet, just like any other casino, you decline to admit that programming of the machines can be changed to favor the host even more than normal.  Or rather that you say that Casino owners don't rig games which we all know they do.  It's kind of like saying, how police officers won't admit to having to fulfill a quota of writing up speeding tickets each month.  I've gotten a few to admit they have to, but the majority of officers will say its ridiculous and not true. Just as you guys are doing with the casino.


I find your posts very intelligent and I tend to agree with you on this subject. I played quite a lot of Keno and I know there is no 70% return over time. I have sat on the machine for hours and tbh I'm lucky to get 15% even, that might be a generous amount. There has been times I did 20 or 30 spins without even a 4 ball win in 10 pick.

I have had a few lucky 50k wins but it's only from the bonus game, I think I won 50k twice on 10 pick.