Blackjack is a fixed joke!

XtraHeat34

Member

I am not kidding when I say this. I just played 70 or so hands of BJ and here is what the dealer got on those hands:
6-7 Blackjacks
28 times was either dealt or hit for a 20
12 times hit to get 21
8 times was either dealt or hit to get 19
6 times was either dealt or hit to get 18
Busted a whopping 3 times
The other 5 or 6 times was a 17

I lost about 57 of the 70 hands I played and never got a single blackjack. I got a 10 or facecard every time I hit on a 12-16. Every time I got a 19 the dealer got a 20 or 21. Every time I got a 20 (maybe 3 times) the dealer got 21. This game is the most ridiculous, one-sided fixed game in this casino and its not even close. I don't care what anyone says, this game is rigged and its been this way for a long time. I almost never win money when I play and cannot stand when I have to play this to complete a task. It takes forever to get an 11 or to be able to split anything, especially aces. I know the mod is going to say there is no possible way this game is fixed and its some algorithm they use to insure fairness, but its just not true or possible. Just playing this game is proof of that. I despise this game and cannot stand having to play it.

XtraHeat34

Member

Oh, and when I finally got an 11 to double down on, guess when I drew? A 2. Guess what the dealer got? A15 then hit for a 6 to get 21. The hand right before that? I was dealt a 19. The dealer was dealt 13 and hit for (you guessed it) a 7 to get 20. Just enough to win as always. F this game!

Unknown User

New member

As someone who has taken the time to “run the numbers”... I can sadly tell you with absolute certainty... that your experience is not unique.  What you’ve described... everyone has experienced.

ON AVERAGE in 4 Kings... a player in Blackjack can expect to win 42% of the hands played... or roughly 4 of every 10 hands played.  I’ve seen it drop as low as 25%... or roughly 25 of every 100 hands played... and I’ve seen it as high as 65%... or 65 of every 100 hands played.  Notice, the losses don’t equal the wins... a player will normally experience greater losses than wins when playing Blackjack in 4 Kings.  This is further brought to light when you compare the various winning percentiles.  For example... at any given time when a player sits down to play Blackjack in 4 Kings... they can expect...

To win in the 20th percentile (20-29% of hands played) approximately 6% of the time.
To win in the 30th percentile (30-39% of hands played) approximately 27% of the time.
To win in the 40th percentile (40-49% of hands played) approximately 49% of the time.
To win in the 50th percentile (50-59% of hands played, breaking even or actually winning) approximately 18% of the time.
To win in the 60th percentile (60-69% of hands played) approximately 1% of the time.
To win in the 70th percentile or higher (70-100%) I can’t say... I’ve NEVER seen it happen.

Further... walking away from a Blackjack table in 4 Kings at even money or above happens at a paltry 18-20% of the time.  Not a bad haul for a game that... in reality... has a house advantage of 2% over an experienced player.

I try to travel to Vegas on average 3 times a year... and Blackjack is one of my “go to” games.  In all of my trips... I can remember only ONE weekend... where I was beaten down over the course of the ENTIRE WEEKEND like 4 Kings does on a DAILY basis.  Just once.  Most of my trips... I sit and play for hours... floating... win a few... lose a few... walk away slightly up... walk away slightly down... only once have I taken a beating like 4 Kings routinely delivers daily.

Simply put... you don’t play Blackjack in 4 Kings to make money... it doesn’t happen.  Moderators bemoan the fact that people complain about their losses in online forums while never extolling their wins.  The reason for that is obvious enough... when you lose most of the time... winning doesn’t even feel like you’ve won anything anymore.

Moderators also continue to insist that “the game is as close as you can get to a real casino” and “it’s totally random... as random as you can get with a random number generator”.  Maybe it’s close in the environment... and the variety of games available to play... but in actually playing the games... and the odds commonly associated with those games... it’s not even close.  If the game play is “as close as you can get to a real casino”... then apparently it isn’t possible to get very close... and in the case of 4 Kings... it errs on the side of the house.  If moderators insist their statement is based upon the gaming itself... then we can only draw one of two conclusions:

They’re either clueless about real gambling or;
They assume their users don’t know any better.

I’ve run the numbers on games other than Blackjack too... but I won’t go into those.  Let’s just say it almost goes without saying... if games in Vegas played this way... Vegas wouldn’t exist in its current form... pure and simple.

Charlie Mac

Member

Wait until youve spent countless hours and money trying to split Aces only to have the dealer get blackjack. That whole game in its entirety is b.s.

Last edited by Charlie Mac (1 Sep 2021 17:17)


“Trust but, verify”

FairPlay

New member

The whole game is completely fixed. It's all about how much real money DL can get out of players. Over a period of time I've noticed the volume of players on ps4 drop considerably were players aren't buying in to the game anymore.
When mentioned to DL about something needs to be done with the game their comment was it's as popular as usual. Hello DL the world has been in a lockdown, money is tight so what do owners of a ps4 do? They download a FREE game to pass the time. They don't care about playing the game as it should be played they come on it just to cause trouble. That why you see the volume of players high on the game. A lot of the players I used see regular don't play anymore.

As for the PC version that version is simply just a ghost town. There's just no fair play in the game at all, it's just take take take and players are having enough of it.

Blackjack and Video Blackjack should be avoided at all times because they completely rob your chips as said in comments #1 n 2
Craps is another one that completely steals your chips. When playing Field bet there's 4 out of 12 numbers that will make you lose and coincidently I always seem to throw 5,6,7 or 8 and hardly any of the winning numbers. The other day I lost about 12 throws on the trot. If it was a real casino players would be saying the casino is using weighted dice.

Any new players to this game think very hard about buying chips because you'll lose them faster than it took you to buy them!!

CobraMJD

Member

Yes, I didn't play the game for about 2 years and the first thing I noticed it was the Blackjack has changed.
The house will get 20 way too much. I play BJ in real life a lot and I never saw the house with that luck.

FairPlay

New member

CobraMJD wrote

Yes, I didn't play the game for about 2 years and the first thing I noticed it was the Blackjack has changed.
The house will get 20 way too much. I play BJ in real life a lot and I never saw the house with that luck.

Exactly!!
Single deck is just as bad, 4 aces in the deck yet the dealer always manages to get blackjack or split aces (when it's a weekly task) and yeah on single deck the dealer gets far to many 20s
DL are laughing at our expense because there no way to report them of foul play so they keep making it harder for us to win so they can steal more of our money!!

Cashmoneeh

Member

Unknown User wrote

I try to travel to Vegas on average 3 times a year... and Blackjack is one of my “go to” games.

If you want to be technical about it then the results are not accurate..you are comparing going Vegas 3 times a year to playing 4kings everyday.. go to Vegas casino everyday and see how black really plays..

Also I've won loads from single deck black jack in high rollers and I've won hillclimb mini blackjack tournament. Sat at the table like 12 hours max betting 40k and I was up on chips after it ended before I even got the 1st place reward..

Like I said you cant compare 3 days a year to playing everyday.. if you are having a bad run..walk away. I've had amazing runs on blackjack on Kings more than once though and I've had a lot of bad runs too.


Hillclimb Champion x 1

Unknown User

New member

THAT’S what you came away with?

My references to my experiences in Vegas (and elsewhere) were anecdotal.  The numbers I posted above regarding this game are not.

I do understand your sentiment though... the desire to believe "It’s real and I’m good at it”.  I've won my share too... you and I have even played against each other on many occasions... and I have my share of leader board jackets... but I'm also cognizant of the fact that the game is far from the realistic portrayal DL claims.  A casino like this in the “real world”... subject to the rules and regulations of a gambling commission... would be subjected to fines, lose their license and be brought up on racketeering charges.  But this isn’t the real world... this is a “game”... where the creators can do whatever they want.

Where is the incentive to create a fair game?  Instead... the algorithms are written to squeeze as much money as they can out of the game... but hopefully not so much as to drive people away.  “Normal house odds are good enough for us”... you actually believe that?

It’s a fact that MANY people have come and gone from the game.  Why?  Most people who enjoy games of chance are the type of people that don’t easily get bored with them... some are even addicted to them... they’ll play again and again and again. For those people... a casino style gambling game is timeless... unless...

Truthfully... the way the game plays encourages bad gambling habits... in every game... but especially in BJ... and especially in poker.

However, DL appreciates your unquestioning loyalty... it’s what keeps them in business.  Without it and that small group of hardcore players... or the curiosity of new players seeing a “free” game and wondering what that’s all about and spending a few as they explore it... they wouldn’t exist.

IkeXP

New member

I have lurked in this forum for years, but I had to register just to reply to this thread. Here is what I have experienced in those years of playing blackjack on Four Kings and how I disagree with what most people are saying.

I have played both thousands of hands and 6 deck and single deck and I honestly believe the cards that are coming up are random and are not chosen by the the dealer to win,

You will see bad runs go for awhile, but you will also see very good runs where you win as well when playing. It may be easier to remember the bad runs than when you are winning, but they nearly equal out in the end. The 6 deck shoe has a small advantage to the dealer, and if player plays correctly there is actually a very small advantage to the player in the single deck player.

You will often see me in VIP 3 betting 40k for hours on the Single Deck and come out down or up a few million. In the end I always come up long term and have never had to pay for chips in the game, while mostly concentrating on blackjack to make chips to spend on other games for fun.

So honestly if you are having trouble playing blackjack, be sure you are playing with the correct strategy for the deck and if you start feeling stressed take a break. I find I start taking more risks when I get stressed and really I just hope everyone here can win some chips in blackjack.

CobraMJD

Member

IkeXP wrote

I have lurked in this forum for years, but I had to register just to reply to this thread. Here is what I have experienced in those years of playing blackjack on Four Kings and how I disagree with what most people are saying.

I have played both thousands of hands and 6 deck and single deck and I honestly believe the cards that are coming up are random and are not chosen by the the dealer to win,

You will see bad runs go for awhile, but you will also see very good runs where you win as well when playing. It may be easier to remember the bad runs than when you are winning, but they nearly equal out in the end. The 6 deck shoe has a small advantage to the dealer, and if player plays correctly there is actually a very small advantage to the player in the single deck player.

You will often see me in VIP 3 betting 40k for hours on the Single Deck and come out down or up a few million. In the end I always come up long term and have never had to pay for chips in the game, while mostly concentrating on blackjack to make chips to spend on other games for fun.

So honestly if you are having trouble playing blackjack, be sure you are playing with the correct strategy for the deck and if you start feeling stressed take a break. I find I start taking more risks when I get stressed and really I just hope everyone here can win some chips in blackjack.

If the game is designed to win I don't know, in my case I still think the dealers has too much luck. Win or lose, blackjack has some strategy and I use it at a good level.

But forget about the game strategy the 2 first cards should be random for the player and the dealer. And that's my biggest problem here.

This can be happen by two factors:
1- Something is going on. By that I mean, some developers like to put a luck factor on the equation, this way you teak a little when you feel like it.

2- Pseudo-Random is acting. First thing to everyone who is not a programmer is to know real life Random number it is IMPOSSIBLE to do in a computer, that why we call Pseudo-Random. This way you need a good code, or technic to simulate the randomness. A bad formula generates a lot of streaks, like 5 blackjacks in a row,etc.
So we hope a good formula are being used and no tweaking to disturbance.

In the end I keep my thought that the bank get 20 too much at start. And if you bust, then you see a 14, 15 after a 10.

Unknown User

New member

One more vote for “It’s real and I’m good at it”

To clarify... I have no issue with the game.  It doesn’t stress me out in the least.  However... I’m a data and numbers kind of person...  so tracking and compiling results is something I do naturally and enjoy... it’s a hobby.  I’m not here to try and convince anyone... I merely responded to the OP... and have since responded to those that imply the analysis is flawed.  I continue to track my results... as I said, it’s a hobby... and the numbers I posted earlier haven’t deviated.   If your experience if different from mine... or different from the experiences of many others that seem to mirror mine... consider yourself lucky... and more power to you.

“You will see bad runs go for awhile, but you will also see very good runs where you win as well when playing.”

I never said you can’t win... I stated very clearly that you can win or break even 18-20% of the time.

“It may be easier to remember the bad runs than when you are winning “

This is actually a theme I’ve seen DL use throughout these forums in defense of their game so... DL... is that you again???

“but they nearly equal out in the end.”

I assembled and tabulated the data over an extended period of time using a consistent method to acquire it.  In doing so, I watched as the various percentiles rose and fell until they reached a point where a baseline for performance could be established.  The percentiles I indicated above are that baseline.

One of the byproducts of using a consistent method of accumulating and recording the data is there isn’t a problem with “remembering the bad while forgetting the good”.  You actually have the information tracked over time in black and white to remind you.  If you’re betting the same amount every time you play, the losses will outweigh the wins in the long run... and it’s not even close... 8 out of 10 times walking away down.

“You will often see me in VIP 3 betting 40k for hours on the Single Deck and come out down or up a few million. In the end I always come up long term and have never had to pay for chips in the game, while mostly concentrating on blackjack to make chips to spend on other games for fun.”

So... what you’re telling us is... you’ve never had to pay for chips... yet you’re playing BJ in VIP 3.  So... you started with a free game and played in the lobby... and were able to parley those meager beginnings into VIP 3 access?  That alone is amazing.

“The 6 deck shoe has a small advantage to the dealer, and if player plays correctly there is actually a very small advantage to the player in the single deck player.”

While we’re on that topic... DL will let you see other players cards in the lobby, VIP and VIP 2 if you’re playing a shoe... but not on a single deck?  Why?  Given your experience... how many times have you played single deck BJ in an actual casino where you weren’t able to see all the other players cards?  For me personally... outside of 4 Kings... I’ve never seen it.  Remember DL’s mantra?  “It’s as close as you can get to a real casino.”  So... why do you think it’s played that way in 4 Kings?  Why would DL not allow you to see everyone else’s hand... what reason would they have?  Isn’t that part of the appeal of single deck BJ... the ability better calculate your risk... and in doing so increase your odds for success?

So... if the cards are hidden from view... please, I’d like to hear your thoughts... explain how there is a very small advantage to the player.  I concede there MIGHT be a numerical advantage... but that advantage is largely neutralized by the cards not being shown.  Notice... you don’t see those other cards as the hands are lost or even after the dealer has finished the hand... win or lose.

Therein lies the rub... how can you be sure it’s actually a single deck?  Because DL says so?  You can’t actually see anyone else’s cards to verify.  I’m not saying it isn’t... logic says it must be because people that are friends frequently communicate verbally via PSN parties... and if I had a 6 of hearts... and they had a 6 of hearts... that would be a dead giveaway, wouldn’t it?  BUT... coupled with an algorithm that is able to produce the card it needs when it needs it... they’re able to insure a positive outcome for themselves when they want it... but you don’t think that’s what happens.  I get that... we all have our opinions.

I’m certainly no pro... and would welcome the insight of someone that’s played thousands of hands and done so well.  Share your knowledge... that’s one point of having a forum, right?

I’ll continue to say it’s a rigged game... a statement they’ll give you a foil hat for saying in the game... but I acknowledge that fact going in so... whatever I’ve spent to play... I have no issue with.  However, it’s far from a realistic simulation and... I’ll say it again... it encourages bad habits and strategies in gambling.  Bottom line... what you do to win in 4 Kings... I would never try in a real casino... and there’s a reason for that.  Effective strategies are based upon odds... and the 4 Kings game play regularly defies the odds.

IkeXP

New member

I imagine Four Kings makes it so you cannot see cards on single deck to cut down on card counting. Also it is very easy to get a group of people to play single deck together and verify the same cards are not being dealt to each person, and that all cards are are being shuffled each deck.

Single deck has the best odds and there is no reason not to play it unless you lack at least VIP 1. It is rare to see single deck poker in any real-life casino because it has traditionally bad odds for the casino, and the rules in the game here are pretty even.

Most of my experience playing in real life has been playing double-deck which is not too much different than what we play in game.  I will admit there are a few differences so I have used a blackjack calculator to memorize the correct moves and will often go back to make sure I am still playing it correctly.

And to complain that the coding cannot completely replicate randomness, that is because shuffling a deck of cards is not random and few things in life are. That is why the programing is made to appear pseudo-random, because that is real life as well.

Unknown User

New member

I follow.

I guess my viewpoint is further jaded for having tracked a variety of games other than BJ.  For another example... a game as innocuous as War.  Though the game plays a bit more realistically than BJ... here too, the player will always lose more than they win... on average walking away even or above about 46% of the time.  Over the long haul it gets close to 50/50... but never reaches it... and has never risen above it.

Further... in War... I’ve seen winning percentages dip as low as 20%... or the equivalent of 20 of 100 hands played... and I’ve seen it as high as 64%... or the equivalent of 64 of 100 hands played.  To put it into terms similar to those used above... at any given time when a player sits down to play War in 4 Kings... they can expect...

To win in the 20th percentile 4% of the time.
To win in the 30th percentile 6% of the time.
To win in the 40th percentile 42% of the time.
To win in the 50th percentile (even or above) 41% of the time.
To win in the 60th percentile 6% of the time.
To win in the 70th percentile 0% of the time.
To win in the 80th percentile 0% of the time.

You’ll notice the game plays very close to that 50/50 region... 83% of the time... but when it strays out of that region... which direction does it consistently stray more?

Over time... in a game like War... it would seem for every 20% winning percentage a player experiences... theoretically they should see a corresponding 80% winning percentage.  For every 30% winning percentage... they should see a 70% winning percentage, and so on.  But... curiously they don’t.

Just DL’s incredibly consistent blind luck, I guess.  No way they’re affecting the outcome.

CobraMJD

Member

IkeXP wrote

And to complain that the coding cannot completely replicate randomness, that is because shuffling a deck of cards is not random and few things in life are. That is why the programing is made to appear pseudo-random, because that is real life as well.

It's not a complain, I said what I studied, it's just a mathematical fact and I can provide you a lot of examples of good and bad Pseudo-Random algorithms. You can disagree with everything I said but Pseudo-Random versus random is not a opinion.


Changing the subject a little, I noticed many times when I almost at  bankruptcy, my luck raises, making me win on a streak and by the way this is great, but it's a impression that it's not just random Everytime. Again, it's just a impression I have.